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20 Somethings- Then & Now
A lot has changed for career women since the 1980s. And not just the shoulder pads.
June 20, 1988. This was the day 9TO5 first landed in readers' hands, dubbed "the magazine for your future".
My, how things have changed. Flipping through a musty copy from the archives, I found the usual glam celebrity cover girl replaced by an image of yachts in the water (greed is good), black-and-white print, and "receptionist wanted" ads calling for nonsmokers of specific ages (18+ or 23+?).
There was also an article on "becoming a top woman manager", with advice from Leonie Still's book of the same name. Her tips included to "decide whether or not you want a career; forget about the 'nice' jobs; and if careers are thwarted, find another organisation, which will allow further room to move".
It was the same year a heavily-shoulder-padded Melanie Griffith appeared in the cult film, Working Girl, about a secretary who steps into her boss's shoes, and Madonna released a remix compilation, You Can Dance.
Demographer Bernard Salt, also a commentator on the new SBS documentary series on Gen Y, Nest (starting June 28), says the '80s career women were a very different breed from those today. "They were certainly making forays into the workplace - they were completing degrees and becoming partners in law and accounting firms. There were female premiers and ministers. The women were paving their way, but they certainly had a long way to go. It was an uphill battle, but at least it was a battle."
Salt says typically women would remain in the workforce only until they had children - and then it wasn't so acceptable for them to come back. "They might have come back in the '90s or this decade, but it would be half-hearted [like, part-time] or in another career altogether."Those who did juggle careers and families were painted somewhat negatively as "supermums" or "superwomen" and would feel guilty about their return to work - often culminating in them overindulging their children with material things. (Hello, Material Girl.)
Their predecessors don't have the same angst, according to Salt: "Twenty years later, the Gen X and Y women don't feel guilty about working. I don't think it really occurs to them that they can't achieve anything they want to. Though, there's still the battles and conflicts with the odd dinosaur male."
University of Sydney media and communications lecturer Megan Le Masurier, who has written a thesis exploring feminism themes in Cleo magazine, agrees: "The reality is that living a tolerable life in Sydney today requires two incomes and, without adequate and inexpensive child care, losing one income for a few years can make life stressful and intolerable. Women understand this."
While sexual harassment didn't even have a name in the early '80s, it seems some things stay the same. Le Masurier says: "Maternity leave was an issue in the '70s, in the '80s, in the '90s and remains so. It is a scandal that Australia still penalises women financially - and emotionally - for having children."
Marriage was pretty much the 'done thing' for women in the '80s, still. "There was a lot of discussion about the point of marriage and much talk about 'living together' - the idea of 'living in sin' disappeared in the late '70s. It seemed the 'liberated' thing to do. But until the law caught up with social practices - until de factos were recognised as legally entitled to a share of the assets in a break-up - most women still saw marriage as a far more sensible option."
Salt says the Gen Y-ers are more cautious about tying the knot, with the average marriage only lasting seven years and about 50 per cent ending in divorce. "Gen Y tend to 'hook up', dismantle and re-hook up in a series of sequential monogamous relationships. It's serial monogamy. Gen Y don't make commitments until the end of their 20s, instead 'road-testing' relationships. Alternatively, the Boomers may have been promiscuous for a few years, but they were still married by 21 and 22."
Sexual awakening was slow-coming in the '80s - an era that said hello to AIDS. Le Masurier says: "In 1982, the G-spot became news. For women, it was both a blessing and a curse. For those women who did manage to orgasm through vaginal penetration, the G-spot explained everything. For the majority who didn't, the G-spot became an elusive cause of much anxiety."
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Things are different today, she says. "There is no question that young women know more about sex, their bodies, and their potential for sexual pleasure than 20 years ago. There is also much less shame about masturbation, which remained a subject of intense privacy and guilt, even in the '80s. The other very positive change in the past 20 years is the accessibility and acceptability of vibrators. A girl's best friend. And most men are no longer threatened by this third partner in the bed. Technology has solved the orgasm issue for a lot of women. Men should be grateful."
For trailblazing, pin-up '80s girl Madonna, the reverse has been true. She has swapped the overt sexuality of her Erotic and Bedtime Stories days for a more subdued, sophisticated persona. Even mothers would love her.
MUMS AND THEIR 20 SOMETHING DAUGHTERS- THEN & NOW
Daughter Dionne Moskow, 26, and mum Karyn, 51.
Dionne Moskow, 26, director of Polkadot PR
HOW EASY WAS IT FOR YOU TO GET A JOB STARTING OUT?
I was fairly lucky to find a job once I graduated from university. However, I think that this is because throughout my studies I did plenty of work experience, so I had a fair understanding of where I wanted to work.
YOUR FIRST SALARY?
My first real job salary was $28,000 but I negotiated to get it to $30,000 a year, including super.
MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE?
My family (including my fiance), my business, Polkadot PR, and my friendships. I work equally hard at maintaining them all!
THOUGHTS ON MARRIAGE?
Bring it on - I'm engaged and get married in February 2009.
Karyn Moskow, 51, retiree
HOW EASY WAS IT for you TO GET A JOB STARTING OUT?
I didn't find it hard as I worked as a secretary in the morning (having learned to type at school) and taught dancing in the afternoons.
YOUR FIRST SALARY?
I earned $140 a month working half days as a secretary, and $150 a month teaching dancing four days a week.
MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE THEN?
My relationship with my husband, and friends.
YOUR THOUGHTS ON MARRIAGE THEN?
I got married when I was 20! It didn't seem young at the time.
Daughter Minka Rosario, 24 and mum Carmela, 48*
Minka Rosario, 24, Journalist
HOW EASY WAS IT FOR YOU TO GET A JOB WHEN STARTING OUT?
I was fortunate because I happened to know somebody in the media industry, who helped me get my foot in the door.
FIRST SALARY?
It was a sobering experience - $28,000. (Secretly, I was expecting to earn at least $40,000.) After all, I'd just spent the last four years slogging it out at uni.
MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE?
My family and friends. However, career comes in a close second!
YOUR THOUGHTS ON MARRIAGE? The reality is I'll probably never get married and I'll probably never have kids, but that's OK. I don't feel marriage is the 'be all and end all'.
Carmela Rosario, 48, Customer Service Operator
HOW EASY WAS IT FOR YOU TO GET A JOB STARTING OUT?
There were plenty of employment opportunities for anyone who had completed Year 12. There really wasn't a big focus on tertiary qualifications though, even for the academically gifted. My best friend blitzed her HSC and was told she could be anything in life, but instead she sat for a public service exam and went on to work for a call centre - she's still there today!
FIRST SALARY?
I was on about $25,000, which was an average wage. My husband worked as a fitter and turner. He did shift work, plus overtime, and earned about $39,000 a year. This was considered a good income back then!
MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE THEN?
It wasn't my career. Friends and relationships came before anything else. Our 20s was all about having fun. We were living the life Cyndi Lauper sang about in Girls Just Wanna Have Fun.
YOUR THOUGHTS ON MARRIAGE THEN?
Most couples I knew didn't live together before marriage. There was a courtship, an engagement and a big focus on marriage and children. If you didn't get married in your 20s and fall pregnant soon after, I think you were looked upon as 'left on the shelf' and there was this awful mentality of: 'What's wrong with her?'
* Names have been changed.
June 20, 1988. This was the day 9TO5 first landed in readers' hands, dubbed "the magazine for your future".
My, how things have changed. Flipping through a musty copy from the archives, I found the usual glam celebrity cover girl replaced by an image of yachts in the water (greed is good), black-and-white print, and "receptionist wanted" ads calling for nonsmokers of specific ages (18+ or 23+?).
There was also an article on "becoming a top woman manager", with advice from Leonie Still's book of the same name. Her tips included to "decide whether or not you want a career; forget about the 'nice' jobs; and if careers are thwarted, find another organisation, which will allow further room to move".
It was the same year a heavily-shoulder-padded Melanie Griffith appeared in the cult film, Working Girl, about a secretary who steps into her boss's shoes, and Madonna released a remix compilation, You Can Dance.
Demographer Bernard Salt, also a commentator on the new SBS documentary series on Gen Y, Nest (starting June 28), says the '80s career women were a very different breed from those today. "They were certainly making forays into the workplace - they were completing degrees and becoming partners in law and accounting firms. There were female premiers and ministers. The women were paving their way, but they certainly had a long way to go. It was an uphill battle, but at least it was a battle."
Salt says typically women would remain in the workforce only until they had children - and then it wasn't so acceptable for them to come back. "They might have come back in the '90s or this decade, but it would be half-hearted [like, part-time] or in another career altogether."Those who did juggle careers and families were painted somewhat negatively as "supermums" or "superwomen" and would feel guilty about their return to work - often culminating in them overindulging their children with material things. (Hello, Material Girl.)
Their predecessors don't have the same angst, according to Salt: "Twenty years later, the Gen X and Y women don't feel guilty about working. I don't think it really occurs to them that they can't achieve anything they want to. Though, there's still the battles and conflicts with the odd dinosaur male."
University of Sydney media and communications lecturer Megan Le Masurier, who has written a thesis exploring feminism themes in Cleo magazine, agrees: "The reality is that living a tolerable life in Sydney today requires two incomes and, without adequate and inexpensive child care, losing one income for a few years can make life stressful and intolerable. Women understand this."
While sexual harassment didn't even have a name in the early '80s, it seems some things stay the same. Le Masurier says: "Maternity leave was an issue in the '70s, in the '80s, in the '90s and remains so. It is a scandal that Australia still penalises women financially - and emotionally - for having children."
Marriage was pretty much the 'done thing' for women in the '80s, still. "There was a lot of discussion about the point of marriage and much talk about 'living together' - the idea of 'living in sin' disappeared in the late '70s. It seemed the 'liberated' thing to do. But until the law caught up with social practices - until de factos were recognised as legally entitled to a share of the assets in a break-up - most women still saw marriage as a far more sensible option."
Salt says the Gen Y-ers are more cautious about tying the knot, with the average marriage only lasting seven years and about 50 per cent ending in divorce. "Gen Y tend to 'hook up', dismantle and re-hook up in a series of sequential monogamous relationships. It's serial monogamy. Gen Y don't make commitments until the end of their 20s, instead 'road-testing' relationships. Alternatively, the Boomers may have been promiscuous for a few years, but they were still married by 21 and 22."
Sexual awakening was slow-coming in the '80s - an era that said hello to AIDS. Le Masurier says: "In 1982, the G-spot became news. For women, it was both a blessing and a curse. For those women who did manage to orgasm through vaginal penetration, the G-spot explained everything. For the majority who didn't, the G-spot became an elusive cause of much anxiety."
read on below advertisement
Things are different today, she says. "There is no question that young women know more about sex, their bodies, and their potential for sexual pleasure than 20 years ago. There is also much less shame about masturbation, which remained a subject of intense privacy and guilt, even in the '80s. The other very positive change in the past 20 years is the accessibility and acceptability of vibrators. A girl's best friend. And most men are no longer threatened by this third partner in the bed. Technology has solved the orgasm issue for a lot of women. Men should be grateful."
For trailblazing, pin-up '80s girl Madonna, the reverse has been true. She has swapped the overt sexuality of her Erotic and Bedtime Stories days for a more subdued, sophisticated persona. Even mothers would love her.
MUMS AND THEIR 20 SOMETHING DAUGHTERS- THEN & NOW
Daughter Dionne Moskow, 26, and mum Karyn, 51.
Dionne Moskow, 26, director of Polkadot PR
HOW EASY WAS IT FOR YOU TO GET A JOB STARTING OUT?
I was fairly lucky to find a job once I graduated from university. However, I think that this is because throughout my studies I did plenty of work experience, so I had a fair understanding of where I wanted to work.
YOUR FIRST SALARY?
My first real job salary was $28,000 but I negotiated to get it to $30,000 a year, including super.
MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE?
My family (including my fiance), my business, Polkadot PR, and my friendships. I work equally hard at maintaining them all!
THOUGHTS ON MARRIAGE?
Bring it on - I'm engaged and get married in February 2009.
Karyn Moskow, 51, retiree
HOW EASY WAS IT for you TO GET A JOB STARTING OUT?
I didn't find it hard as I worked as a secretary in the morning (having learned to type at school) and taught dancing in the afternoons.
YOUR FIRST SALARY?
I earned $140 a month working half days as a secretary, and $150 a month teaching dancing four days a week.
MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE THEN?
My relationship with my husband, and friends.
YOUR THOUGHTS ON MARRIAGE THEN?
I got married when I was 20! It didn't seem young at the time.
Daughter Minka Rosario, 24 and mum Carmela, 48*
Minka Rosario, 24, Journalist
HOW EASY WAS IT FOR YOU TO GET A JOB WHEN STARTING OUT?
I was fortunate because I happened to know somebody in the media industry, who helped me get my foot in the door.
FIRST SALARY?
It was a sobering experience - $28,000. (Secretly, I was expecting to earn at least $40,000.) After all, I'd just spent the last four years slogging it out at uni.
MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE?
My family and friends. However, career comes in a close second!
YOUR THOUGHTS ON MARRIAGE? The reality is I'll probably never get married and I'll probably never have kids, but that's OK. I don't feel marriage is the 'be all and end all'.
Carmela Rosario, 48, Customer Service Operator
HOW EASY WAS IT FOR YOU TO GET A JOB STARTING OUT?
There were plenty of employment opportunities for anyone who had completed Year 12. There really wasn't a big focus on tertiary qualifications though, even for the academically gifted. My best friend blitzed her HSC and was told she could be anything in life, but instead she sat for a public service exam and went on to work for a call centre - she's still there today!
FIRST SALARY?
I was on about $25,000, which was an average wage. My husband worked as a fitter and turner. He did shift work, plus overtime, and earned about $39,000 a year. This was considered a good income back then!
MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE THEN?
It wasn't my career. Friends and relationships came before anything else. Our 20s was all about having fun. We were living the life Cyndi Lauper sang about in Girls Just Wanna Have Fun.
YOUR THOUGHTS ON MARRIAGE THEN?
Most couples I knew didn't live together before marriage. There was a courtship, an engagement and a big focus on marriage and children. If you didn't get married in your 20s and fall pregnant soon after, I think you were looked upon as 'left on the shelf' and there was this awful mentality of: 'What's wrong with her?'
* Names have been changed.
Story: Carla Caruso
